[01:00:06:14 - 01:00:15:01]
 All right, guys, I'm Corey Frederick here on the Tyrant Network podcast show. And I'm off the mat today with a special guest, Steve Bastinelli.

[01:00:16:13 - 01:00:22:16]
 Steve, welcome. Or really, that's the first time I've ever called you Steve, at least to your face. But Mr. B, welcome to to the show. We appreciate you taking time.

[01:00:24:05 - 01:01:32:08]
 I'm going to go through just a quick little bio for Coach Coach B here, and then really just want to turn it into a conversation with everybody. But for those of you that aren't familiar with Steve Bastinelli, he's born and born and raised in Delaware, went to Sussex Central High School. He from a wrestling perspective, he was 84 and now undefeated. And that was 10th through 12th grade back then, for whatever reason. 9th grade there was in part of high school. Therefore, he was a three time state champ, a three time conference champ. He was junior national champ. I guess that was AAU back then, I think. Coming through high school, he ended up being a first team high school all American. He was on the USA Wrestle and Dream Team in high school in 1976. He took fourth place in the Greco trials, the Olympic trials for Greco and took silver and nationals as well in Greco. Kind of jumping into college a little bit and we'll circle back on these things. Mr. B, a wrestler for Lehigh University, where he was a four year starter. He was a four time place finisher, placing in the top three every year in the IAA's and a one time champ as their four time NCAA qualifier. Senior year, you were a captain.

[01:01:33:08 - 01:01:38:14]
 1979, your team Lehigh placed third in nationals and then you graduated with academic honors.

[01:01:40:09 - 01:02:19:10]
 Your career, you ended up graduating from Lehigh. You moved back to Delaware, but instead of going down south, you went to a St. Mark's private school up in northern Delaware. You were an American history teacher. You were a freshman soccer coach. In regards to wrestling, you coached St. Mark's for 23 years. You had 10 team champions. You had eight runner ups as a team. Your overall dual meet record was 201, 79 and two. You had 58 champs in individual states, 131 place finishers, three, four time champs, two, three time champs and seven, two time champs. In 1998, fun fact there, you had eight, nine finalists, eight champs. That's a record.

[01:02:20:16 - 01:03:36:01]
 Over the years, you had five nationally ranked teams coming out of high school into college, you had a couple all Americans that went on that both of them actually wrestled at Clarion. Sheldon Thomas was Delaware's only national champ and he was a three time all American and then John Testa, your heavyweight ended up being an all American his senior year. And after about 23 years, you, you stepped down, you were an assistant coach for a couple of years and then post St. Mark's you decided to become an athletic director at Newark high school and Sussex Academy, then kind of rounding out your bio. You are in the hall of fame for the Delaware sports hall of fame, which I think you're one of only maybe two or less than a handful of a wrestling related people that are in the Delaware sports hall of fame. You're in the Delaware wrestling hall of fame. You're back in your hometown. You're in the Sussex central high school hall of fame. And then coming up this February, you were getting inducted into the St. Mark's hall of fame. So, and I know the list is much longer than that. That's an abbreviated bio for you, but that's quite an impressive resume, whether it was as an athlete or as a coach. And I guess if I just jumped in and started asking some questions or thinking on behalf of the audience, Mr. B and for those of you don't know, I wrestled for Mr. B. So I'm always going to call him Mr. B. I'm never going to call him Steve or anything else. So, um, what, when, and why did you start wrestling?

[01:03:37:16 - 01:04:04:07]
 Well, um, that was, I was in third grade and my dad was the coach at, um, what was then, I guess, did that then? No, I guess it would have been Sussex central. Then, cause Georgetown and Millsboro combined and, um, I was allowed to be a manager, so I had a buddy and come to practice and then we would wrestle and do whatever, um, everybody else did.

[01:04:05:11 - 01:05:35:20]
 Um, and then at the meets, you know, um, do whatever, um, you know, one of my favorites was, uh, way back when, before it was Sussex central Georgetown was wrestling Millsboro and, um, my brother Mark ate too much and he puked all over the place and clean. I cleaned that up. Um, probably wouldn't do that as a manager, uh, today, maybe, but, um, but that's, that's how I got started. And then, um, you know, what went on through in those days, there was no, no summer wrestling or anything like that. Um, and we, at, at the Indian river school district, Sussex central had a junior high, which was seventh, eighth and ninth grade and a senior high, which was 10 through 12 and you, they were different buildings. One was in Millsboro. One was in Georgetown. You couldn't, um, wrestle or compete athletically in the school that you did not attend. So for that reason, I couldn't wrestle a high school till 10th grade. Was there other high schools in our state though, that were ninth through 12th and it was just yours or was it the entire state? No, there was a lot. There were, there were all, there were a lot of nine through twelves, but then there were also, you know, smaller schools then, as long as they were on one building like tower Hill or, or something like that, um, you know, even small schools like Laurel, Milford, then it, you know, they could wrestle in, in eighth grade. Um, so my brother, my older brother Mark actually wrestled varsity for five years and he was a five time, him, Lopez conference champion.

[01:05:37:10 - 01:08:33:23]
 So I was always wondering why that happened. And nowadays though, I think Milford high school is even their ninth grade is over in our middle school. I believe you would know better than me after being the AD, but I thought their ninth grade was over in our middle school. Well, I don't know exactly how they set that up, but, um, it's something about a, an academy, but anyway, they can use eighth graders now. Yeah. So, so they're fairly large school, but they, they can use eighth graders. Typically Milford can Milford can. Yes. Even though they're public school. I thought that was strictly for private schools. Right now. No, Laurel, Seaford, um, Delmar, a lot of those smaller schools. I mean, they probably couldn't have a team really in a lot of cases and definitely not a JV if they didn't, um, weren't able to use the younger kids. So McAdemy could also. So your entire wrestling career in high school, though, what did you never do any off season wrestling at all? I started when I was, I believe it was 10th grade after, um, after my ninth grade year, but then I, I wrestled in, you know, in a couple and then increase that, you know, as the years went on, of course, as it became more popular, but, um, there wasn't, especially in, in lower Delaware. I mean, when I started, you pretty much had to travel two hours to any tournament you were going to go to. Now travel was a little slower than, um, so, you know, we were in our wagons, but no, I'm just kidding. We, um, you know, to get to Newark or one of the up their state in New York took to new upstate Delaware took two hours to go over to Washington took two hours, that sort of thing. So, um, you know, wrestled in different tournaments there. And then it gradually evolved into more organized type stuff where you were qualifying from one level to an extra, the junior Olympics and things like that. Now your brother Mark, he's older than you, right? Yes. He's four years older. So somehow, some way the school shifted though, where physically you weren't in the building as a ninth grader, but he, he had to, he not only got his freshman year, but he got his eighth grade year, but from your perspective, especially being a three time or undefeated, like, did that ever bother you that you didn't have a chance to wrestle high school your freshman year? Oh yeah. I mean, it did. And, uh, you know, and, and being as we were, you know, so close and my dad was the coach, I used to work out with the high school team quite a bit. Um, and, um, and I could, I could beat the guy who would have been my weight, who ended up second in the state that year. But, um, you know, so that's kind of irritating, but you know, other than that, it's just, that's what it was. And, you know, they would go back and forth, um, saying that, you know, okay, maybe we're going to let the, the kids from the same school wrestle in the ninth grade and then it never happened. But, you know, it's, they, you still hear that kind of talk sometimes like, you know, that new arc high school could use their middle school kids, but of course, a number of their middle school kids don't come to new arc high school. Um, so it would be a problem.

[01:08:35:00 - 01:08:42:18]
 So then we fast forward a little bit. Uh, why did you end up, I know you went to Lehigh. What made you, or what was your top schools or why did you choose to go Lehigh?

[01:08:44:04 - 01:10:58:02]
 Well, I, I'm mainly because I, I was academically driven and Lehigh was a, you know, a real good school in terms of academics, much, much better than a lot. And, um, my dad did go there. Um, my grandmother lived on actually fifth street, which I lived very close to that only a lot further across town. Um, and you know, it's, it always had a great program at that time. It probably was the best team in the, in the East. Um, Penn state was good, but they, they weren't like they are today. And, um, you know, so there was, there was a lot of advantages going there. I could go visit my grandmother when she, she was in a nursing home by then. Um, things like that. Plus, you know, you, you don't really understand that environment until you're in it, um, that, that they are really wrestling crazy there. I mean, it just, uh, uh, the one time after Eastern's, I believe it was actually in Philly at the, the, the, and, uh, one of my roommates wrestled 142 and he'd taken a hard knock and had a little bit of a concussion. So when he came back, he had a test. So he said, you know, well, maybe I'll just see if the professor will come over here and ask me questions. And I'm thinking here, right. And got home from my class that day. And there he is sitting in our living room with the professor who's asking any questions. Um, so, I mean, it really was wrestling, Grace Hall, which wasn't a huge building, but they packed it every time. And, uh, it was, it was pretty neat, neat place to go. So I didn't know that your dad went there and I didn't know that your grandma lived up there. So I just thought your family was all from downstate and Delaware. So, so did your dad move from Lehigh Valley down to Sussex County? Right. He, I mean, he has a really interesting story that, you know, he, he went to, he went to Lehigh and, um, that was, you know, the war was just beginning world war two, and so he actually left and went into the, to the military. Um, he was in an engineering unit and then he was over in, in Europe. And, um, then when he came back, then he finished his career at Lehigh. Um, graduating in 1949.

[01:10:59:10 - 01:11:17:02]
 Um, he said it was a real advantage to him because when he initially went in, he just wasn't one of the more mature guys. Um, he was young for, you know, his age in that time period. And so, you know, you come back and you've been fighting in a war for three, four years, you're, you're going to be a little bit of a different person.

[01:11:18:03 - 01:12:31:16]
 Um, and then, you know, and then he finished up his wrestling. His senior year was his best. He probably should have definitely placed in Easterns because he, um, he beat most all the guys that, and it was just, you know, one of those things where he lost a close match and, and that was that, but, um, he tells some really cool stories, um, about Grace Hall and, um, his matches there and the different guys on their team, things like that. It's pretty nice. Do you stay connected with, uh, any of the Lehigh alums or try to get back to any of their matches? What, when I go back to some, um, not a whole lot necessarily. Um, you definitely end up being closer to your, I think your high school teammates and classmates and things. And you do, you do college anyhow, but, um, I lived off campus all four years. I was honestly, mainly there to wrestle. Um, I wrestle and do, you know, do my work. Um, so, and it, and it was, it was a tough, you know, it's a tough school. Uh, you know, I'd thought about majoring in a science and, uh, then looking at their math, I'm thinking there's no way cause I hated math anyhow, and there's just no way that I was going to be able to do that crap. So, you know, Did you know going in, you wanted to be a history teacher?

[01:12:32:20 - 01:13:11:12]
 Not a history teacher. I knew I wanted to be a teacher and I hadn't really even thought about it. You know, to me, you know, teaching was teaching. Um, I, I guess I never really, I don't think I ever really saw myself as a phys ed teacher, but, um, cause that's what my dad was. But, um, you know, just the same that, yes, that was my plan because I wanted to coach, I want, you know, I wanted to be a coach and that pretty much at that time, the best way to do that was to be a teacher. Did you play any other sports growing up? Um, I, okay. So we have a big family there. There are seven kids. And so, uh, four of us in four years, I was the fourth of that.

[01:13:12:14 - 01:16:29:18]
 And when you have that many, it was really hard. So we weren't allowed to do other sports until when I was in my last year, what would have been little league, which I think was sixth grade, I begged enough to where my mom and dad said I could play little league baseball, but my, the agreement I had to make was that if I had to ride my bike to anything because they weren't committing to taking me. So that was a five mile ride. Um, but, um, the, the day that I was supposed to start, we were, there was a, dad had a lifting program after school. And so we're lifting and one of the wrestlers, the big ones stood out like a sort of a foot sweep on me. And, uh, I went up and then the air came down and broke my wrist. So I missed half the season, but then I played baseball there. I played baseball in the junior high seventh grade. I made the team, but just, you know, to watch on the bench pretty much. Uh, and then I did play one year of soccer in 10th grade. Cause I, I couldn't find anybody to work out with me in the fall. So I figured, yeah, I'll play soccer. And, uh, but then that's the best side. I'm sorry. As that's what I was wondering. So you only played one year of soccer ever. One year of my life. Yes. So when you coach, when you started coaching soccer, was it more because your kids were soccer players or did you be like, or is it just for some extra income or why did you decide to coach soccer? Well, when I, when I got to St. Mark's, they were talking about starting a soccer, a freshman team. They had had a soccer team and, you know, at the time, especially it seemed like anything that you could agree to that they wanted was going to make it better for you getting the job. And it was a little bit extra money. It wasn't very much, but I guess every little bit counts, but that's, you know, that's how I started, started coaching. And, um, you know, and then once my kids got into it, then I, you know, I was really, really involved, so it's, uh, were some of your siblings living upstate at that point? Or was it just to say Mark's had a job available and you jumped on it? Cause you guys are pretty family oriented. Yeah. I mean, I, I kind of Mark, um, my oldest brother was living up here and, um, you know, it was a little different downstate. I think, I think downstate now is not a heck of a whole lot different than upstate was. Um, but like when we were talking about colleges down there, um, like they would immediately talk about, you know, first off going to a Southern school. Uh, there wasn't much of a concern either than really to encourage college. And I didn't want my kids growing up in that where I saw it, you know, being up here, especially by the university of Delaware, more of a, an environment where they would, you know, see that as their path. Now, I mean, in, in my family, we all saw that as our path. So it wasn't like it had to be, but, um, uh, it was just a little different. And I, you know, looking for that different kind of environment. So I, I actually interviewed in Northern Delaware, I was interviewed in Baltimore and, um, in New Jersey at Blair Academy. Oh, did you? Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I, I decided against that, um, just because that's a, it's a live in and you as an early faculty member would be living in a dorm, dorm house essentially.

[01:16:30:21 - 01:18:35:17]
 And just, I was just getting married. I, it's not really what I wanted to do at the time. And then they were, they were good then they weren't as good as they were going to get shortly after that. So when you started saying marks, when did Jeff Buxton start polarity, remember? It would have been, he would have been there. Well, Bob Lutessa took the job that next year. And then I think Jeff Buxton joined Bob another year after that. So it was only several years in, but we were the three of us got to be really close, especially, you know, from competing and, um, working together at camps and things like that. That I always wondered how you establish a relationship with coach Buxton. So you had, you had known him prior to coaching and through training or, or, or competing and camps and all that. No, he wrestled for Rhode Island. And, um, I believe it was my sophomore year. So I'm more junior. No, it would have been junior because Darryl Burley was a freshman. He wrestled Burley and Burley just throwing him all over the place. Um, Darryl Burley was a two time national champion. So, I mean, but, um, yeah, I mean, he wasn't that good of a wrestler necessarily, but, uh, it turned out, you know, obviously he was quite a coach. Yeah. Yeah. So thinking back, let's say as an athlete, um, at any level, what, what is one, what are some of the most memorable times you can think of or some of the, some of the highlights of your career that really stand out to you that you're most proud of or was just a good time? Yeah. I mean, you can go down a lot of different paths. Um, you know, in a, in a question like that, um, you know, some of the things that I guess that I'm most proud of and was, was definitely my, my junior year in college when we placed third in the NCAA. So, you know, that wouldn't be equivalent today to, you know, whatever team in the NCAA football thing coming up is going to lose their first game, but would have been the third place team, you know, that you're better than all the other teams in the country. Essentially. Um, we scored, there were five of us on the team that scored points. Um, that, that was my best year. I was, I was one point from placing.

[01:18:36:17 - 01:19:59:15]
 Um, and, uh, your junior year was your best year. My junior year. So that was, um, yeah, it was pretty neat. You know, you got called up as the third place team and got the, you know, the huge plaque and things like that. It's, you know, whenever you watch it on TV, you're only going to see the champion because obviously they're not going to do much more than that, but the ceremony is a lot more so that was, you know, that was kind of neat. Um, to do that, I think, I think definitely like, I mean, when I was a high school senior, I decided that I wasn't going to wrestle anymore high school tournaments in, um, the summer, uh, that I was only going to wrestle open competition. So, uh, you know, I went in the national AAU's, which was the, you know, the big tournament then, um, so, you know, some, the national United States Wrestling Federation was another one. And, you know, like in that one, uh, I wrestled a guy from, um, I think it was South Korea and, um, the, the Koreans are all around the match screaming at you. Um, so that's, you know, that was kind of interesting. Um, another one was where I, I wrestled in an Olympic qualifier and the guy who was second at one Oh five, the weight class below four years before he had, he had lost in a really long wrestle off. Um, I'm wrestling him. He's an older guy and I, it's first time I ever had little kids on the side of the mat yelling, killing daddy, killing.

[01:20:00:16 - 01:20:54:09]
 Um, so that was kind of, it was kind of interesting. Um, and then, you know, and then back to high school, you know, there, there was quite a rivalry back then wrestling was really big downstate. I think, I don't know that people would necessarily recognize it, but the, the matches between Sussex central and Smyrna were just amazing. I mean, the one year, you know, they're, the line into the gym was probably at least 50 to 75 yards long, um, for people to get in, uh, not, they're not big gyms, obviously, but they were packed. And the people were going crazy. Um, my senior year, the match happened to be at Smyrna and it was, it was a wild match. We, we beat them. It was a really cool, um, kind of thing. Um, then went to our bus with an escort because they'd already knocked out some of the windows, uh, Smyrna was a little different than, than it is now. A little, little, little rougher at times.

[01:20:55:17 - 01:23:12:04]
 So, uh, a point back to when you were in college and you know, there was one point in the match, but back then they only placed top six for all American. Right. So had you had, had it been top eight, you would have been an all American. No, that was, um, this, they had started top eight by then. So that was what they call the blood round. And, uh, I lost the kid two to one or one to nothing. I can't remember when the nothing, maybe something like that. Do you think that, so like, you know, you go to Lehigh Valley or Texas football or Ohio wrestling, but like, and even downstate in Delaware, but do you think that like the cross town rivals and, you know, the old matches, um, or even football games, do you think that that's hurt by, you know, all these private schools up here, because everybody just goes, you know, you, you can have 12 different schools in one neighborhood versus everybody going to the same school, you know, like, like I, I miss those days, like the old school, William Penn, St. Mark's wrestling match when I was around, but you know, there are still some of that downstate rivalry, but up here, you just don't get that. You don't have that. Everybody doesn't go to the football game on Friday nights here. If they are, they're going to 20 different schools. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it is, it is different down there in there. There's no question. Um, I, you know, I was my first year as an athletic director was at South six central and, um, one of the things that really kind of surprised me, uh, because you know how it's always a big deal, them selling tickets for graduation, if people have come in, well, there had to be at least a hundred people sitting there, it's on the football field outside the gates because they didn't have tickets in their lounge chairs, just watching graduation. Just like that was the thing to do. Um, you probably wouldn't see that very many places. Um, but yeah, I mean, and just so you know, the, the rivalries were, you know, they were, they were pretty intense and further you go back, I think more they were localized because, you know, when, when it was Georgetown and then newly Sussex central, all the kids in that area went to that school. So like, if you went over to, to Seifert to the movies, cause Georgetown didn't have any movie theater, um, wearing your Sussex central jacket, you could get jumped, um, cause they didn't like you being in their town with your jacket on that sort of thing. But it, it was different in, um, but the rivalries are, are kind of neat when you have them that way.

[01:23:13:19 - 01:23:34:17]
 So when you first started coaching, I'll tell you from my experience, when I first started coaching, I think a lot of what I did was because of, you know, how, or what I learned from you and our practice room and things like that, but when you first started coaching, you know, what was your style? Was it all like based off what you learned from your dad was some of it from Lehigh, like, how did you think you became the coach that you were or how did you evolve as a coach?

[01:23:36:08 - 01:27:58:14]
 Well, it was, it was a combination of a lot of things. I mean, it was definitely a lot from my dad. And I think he was one of the few coaches that had actually wrestled. Um, and you know, I'm say this way, but kind of knew what he was doing, um, and I followed a lot of the things that he did, but he, there was always an emphasis on learning and, and getting better. So, um, you know, I, back in those days, they had books and, uh, I would actually, when I was learning freestyle and Greco Roman go through, row through the pages and try the, you know, the different techniques. Um, a guy named Carl Adams, who was a great wrestler at Iowa state, put out a number of books. And, um, so there were some, you know, really neat things like that. Then at Lehigh, um, I learned a lot as well. It was a little bit different, but I mean, you could tell the dad had wrestled before because he did wrestle like a college program in that, and very much the way I coached in high school. You did a lot of teaching, you did a lot of drilling and you did a lot of live wrestling, you did virtually no other things that, you know, they're running miles and miles and, you know, especially taking a practice time for that, that, that wasn't happening and you didn't have enough time. Um, but I guess on the flip side too, you, you learned what not to do too. Um, from things that went on as well. And, um, you know, so I feel like it was just kind of a thing that you had to. Keep, keep bad and any, it's, it's a constantly evolving thing. You can't, if you think you're going to coach just like you did years ago, or even like you did last year, to some degree, you're probably in a lot of trouble. Um, yeah, I'll never forget after my first year at St. Mark's, I was talking to my coach, college coach after the season. And I said, coach, I can't do this. I can't teach basic skills all my life. Um, and then the next year, the kids are in the room and they're parroting the things that I had said the year before, and this is just kind of amazing to me that they remembered it. And then, you know, so obviously then you can continue. And so, you know, kind of developed an idea that I referred to as a snow on technique and that you just threw everything you could at them because the kids were so different and it did. It varied as to what they would prefer to do. Uh, and then I always said that I, I feel like I learned more through a season than I taught, I mean, that became more and more true as the years went on, uh, because kids would, would come up with technique. I mean, I don't know who started doing the reinforced bar. We had a lot of success with it through the, through the years. Um, Spencer Lee is, is kicking ass with it now. Um, but we had a kid named Brian Burbage. He was my first state champion who used it all the time. So you didn't, you didn't originally teach that to your guys. You learned it from one of them. Well, we, we just kind of came into it. I don't know. I mean, you know, I always taught arm bars and things like that, but you know, it was just the rules had changed a little bit. So they were counting back points a little bit quicker. You know what I mean? So anyway, you could like delay them on their back. Essentially you could pick up back points. So we called it a cheap two back then. Um, and, and then, you know, from there, kids saw the success he was having. Then they wanted to do it a few years later. We had some kids that were good with legs naturally. And so, I mean, I didn't use legs very much, uh, but I began teaching them all over the place and we developed all kinds of different things from them. Um, and a lot from the kids. And again, it depended on the build. Um, because I think you were one of them that used the, you would throw the legs and then cradle over the back. Um, I could never do that. I could never get my hands to me, but there, you know, that was a technique you could, you could teach and, and then they would do it. Um, and when you have that attitude of learning, the kids would always like, um, the one, the one kid from Milford was doing a cradle and then he was stepping over the head the opposite way. And we're like, what the hell? So the guys are watching it, get on the mat and figured it out. And then some of them started using it. But that's to me, that's the, you know, the great thing about wrestling is that it is so, so evolving like that. And, um, you know, always, it's always going to be different.

[01:27:59:15 - 01:29:38:04]
 Do you think like on the cardio side, was it more like, Hey guys, we only have so much time for me to teach rest on that you can do that something you can do on your own, or was it, you just thought that, or maybe it's a combination of both. You just thought that, uh, you can get all the cardio that you need through drilling rest on and going live, that you don't need to do other things like just running stairs or wind sprints or whatever. Right. I mean, that's kind of, that's kind of what I thought. And I had never really, we've ran a little bit at Lehigh, um, you know, not, and not like a lot of schools do, but with the, when we had double sessions, like over Thanksgiving or Christmas, um, we would, you know, run and drill in the morning and then, and then drill and wrestle in the afternoon, that sort of thing. Um, but you know, for the most part, and especially in high school, you, you just couldn't get the kids together. You, you had them for that two hours and that was it. And, and my dad and, you know, always preached, you know, I mean, in a way, I guess maybe there's no other way to do it. I don't know. I never coach football, but just watching football practice, what you're watching is a lot of standing around. Um, and maybe that's why it has to be, I don't know, but in wrestling, if we were standing around, if we weren't doing something that we were doing something wrong, you know, that we should be active and doing things. And if you did that, that you would get out of it, what you needed. And, and, you know, if you remember back to the week before, like the states and things, the practices really weren't that long, you know, you were, you, because you already had the conditioning. So you were just kind of toning things, making sure you didn't get hurt like that. Um, so my memory is not always the best back then. We even started tapering down a little bit towards the end of the season. Yes. We did.

[01:29:39:09 - 01:30:13:10]
 And that was actually, I had planned, that was a plan, you know, that we would go later and later as the time went on. Yeah. So as a coach, I think sometimes like I'm overly critical of myself as a parent, as a coach, whatever, maybe I think anytime you're looking back on things, or maybe when things didn't turn out exactly how you wanted them. But what, are there anything that you would have done differently or maybe some couple of main things, but is there anything you would have done differently over the years or wish you would have done, or now you know what you know, and you have all this experience that you would have implemented some different things or changed?

[01:30:14:22 - 01:33:33:13]
 Yeah. I mean, that's always, that's always going to be true. And, um, you know, some of those things you would, you would never do. And others, you know, I mean, one of the first things that I would think that is our first year, we were having trouble filling, I believe it was one 40. And so we were like, good beat in the halls and going after kids. And, and what, what high school kids, a lot of time will do, like in a situation where you change a coach, a kid's wrestled for two years, but then he doesn't come out, you know, and so I found out who wrestled the year before, of course, didn't come out and I'm going after him. And usually they quit. They didn't usually stay in there and, you know, and, and Bill and I've had conversations about that. Bill Valencia, my assistant who was with me all the way through of, you know, we would never do that again. I mean, you know, um, our main goal really was to make it an attractive sport, so they wanted to try it and they wanted to do it, but, um, you know, how you had to do what you had to do at times. Um, you know, when, when Sheldon Thomas was a sophomore, uh, we didn't have a heavyweight and so, well, a lot of the guys knew our soccer goalie at the time, Travis Siriaco, and they talked him into coming out and he ended up being a, you know, second and third in the state. Um, so, you know, it just, it's just a variety of things. Um, I think the way, um, the way we presented things changed. Uh, initially I would show everything. Um, but it got to the point by the end of my career where the, there were kids that could do certain techniques a lot better than I could. So they showed it, you know what I mean? So you weren't to me, you weren't just teaching, but you were also teaching them to teach, to be coaches. Um, and a number of them have gone on to do that. Yeah. You've had a out of what say marks or at least my, you know, my generation. I mean, we've had a ton of guys that came out of there to be coaches. And I remember back whether it was working a summer camp with you or just as you got older and we were a little bit more experienced that, you know, you had us teach some technique more. And then, you know, what I learned is, you know, the more you teach, the better you are at yourself at some of those things and you pay attention to some of the details. Um, and even as a coach, you know, I've had a lot of guys coach or teach or do whatever I think that, you know, like you mentioned about Jeff Buxton and I don't know what level he was as a wrestler and, you know, I certainly didn't, you know, I don't have the most accomplishments out there, but as a coach, you know, in the very beginning, I coach just like probably you were and how our program was, but then over the years, whether it was with Tyron or team Delaware or whatever it was, I surrounded myself with so many people and all the traveling I did across the country that I really just developed, you know, I became a student of the sport myself and learned so much as a coach. Um, and it's almost like, well, damn, if I could have been that passionate or that into it, um, or focused when I was an athlete, where could have I have been, you know, and, but back then you're balancing partying and school and girls and all that stuff. And, you know, like, I think, I think as a coach too, like I look at, or even as a parent that you just see, you see the potential in people. And that's what's tough is that they don't always, uh, give the same level of effort or commitment to reaching their, what their potential and anything, no matter if it's sports or not. And I think that's the hardest thing because you want them to reach their potential, but kids are kids.

[01:33:34:20 - 01:34:32:18]
 And that's, you know, you try to give them the opportunity, but, um, yeah, I mean, and what you're saying is, you know, it's absolutely true. I mean, the, the thing like the two guys that coach player, Bob Litesse, and Jeff Buxton, that when the teams, you know, really grew to be tremendous. They, um, you know, neither one were very good wrestlers, uh, necessarily they wrestled in college and they were okay. Um, but I don't, they didn't never even qualify for nationals or anything like that, uh, but they did, I mean, you know, they, and, and they had the, the freedom in a way to do that. They were not, uh, you know, highly competitive wrestling area. I mean, those guys were welcome anytime come to the Lehigh wrestling room and just show up and watch, work out, whatever you want to do. Um, you know, and we didn't have that really, I mean, I guess you could have gone and watched the university of Delaware wrestle, but, um, I did, and my brothers wrestled there and I did some, and I, it was, it was hard to take. It was hard to watch.

[01:34:34:15 - 01:36:31:04]
 Now, but I mean, for more, for my, the best of my memory, and then overall in your career that most of your coaching was done in season at school, right? You didn't do a ton of out of season coaching, did you? I, well, I mean, I taught clinics in the summer. That was what my summer job was. So, you know, six, six plus weeks at different, uh, you know, different clinics doing different things. And, and especially when, you know, as I got older, um, I often was the one organizing the technique sessions. Um, so what ends up happening when you do that is, you know, the director says, we want to cover this, this, and this during the session. Well, whatever the other coaches didn't want to do, that's what I taught because that's what had to happen. Um, and, uh, so, but I mean, no, as far as out, and neither were different, there were different wrestlers through, um, through the years that wanted to do more outside. Um, and so, you know, a young man named John McCoggin, who was a two time state champ, and I think one of the biggest reasons why our program turned when it did not if it did, but when it did, um, and, uh, he, he really wanted to do it. So we used to wrestle quite a bit. He, we were, you know, fairly close in size and, uh, you know, for him training in the, in the summer, um, of course, you know, you and I would do that until they're a senior. So, yeah, you were limited in that regard. So how, how do you think your, your, I say work, but let's say, you know, coaching, but your work life balance was, or balancing to having two kids, your wife, and then, you know, our schedule, like even if, you know, let's say, obviously get more of the club atmosphere where, you know, you didn't coach that club, we went to a lot of open mats, but you still had your, your camps and clinics that you did. But, you know, in season, we were still going to Virginia and New Jersey, and it was around holidays and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, how were you, how did, were you able to balance that? Or was it Mrs. B, your wife, just extremely supportive and your kids understood?

[01:36:32:12 - 01:38:40:12]
 It, it, that was tough. I mean, that, and, and I think a lot of it even, you know, now looking back, cause you don't realize you're so, so enmeshed in the whole thing. I think her parents were huge because they were here with the kids an awful lot. And, you know, she's a nurse, which is a great profession for someone who, you know, who's married to a teacher that because they're hours, they can do so many different types of things, but, you know, you really did miss a lot of time. I mean, you know, pretty much from the first tournament, which would have been the beginning of December until the end of February, pretty much the weekends were gone. I mean, you know, the only day I was home was Sunday and we're in bed. A lot of that, if depending on how things went, you know, I mean, it was, it was pretty tiring driving back from Virginia Dools and getting home at like three in the morning, that sort of thing. Um, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't have it any way other way. I mean, we were kind of forced into scheduling that way, but now, you know, I'm glad we did. I mean, I think it offered a lot of great things, but, um, I think it really kind of helped me the impact of that when, you know, my son was never really that interested in wrestling and, um, and then he, he decided to wrestle and I, I was, you know, soccer is his big sport. I, I was surprised when he did in school. And, and the one time when I asked him, he said, well, I don't get to see it very much, you know, and as wrestling, when you're wrestling, you would, cause he was with us on all those weekends. So, you know, that's, that's a little tough, but, you know, I spent a lot of time with them otherwise, because that's what I was coaching a lot on the off season with soccer, cause I was working out with them. Yeah. So the schedule that we had, you know, I consider it to be a lot more traveling than the normal local schools. Was that something that just evolved over time or how, or why did you start, you know, traveling as much as we did as a program? And did you ever meet any resistance from St. Mark's where they, where they were, they supportive of you wanting to go to Virginia and New Jersey and all over the place, as opposed to just wrestling all the in-state guys, like most other schools did, or how did that all come about?

[01:38:41:17 - 01:42:00:10]
 Well, the reality was back then there was a real conflict between the public schools and the Catholic private schools. And so Bill Valencia, my assistant, his mom was actually one that led a lawsuit against the, the, the public districts and they were forced to play the private schools in a number of, you know, they keep sport. They had a number of meets or whatever that they had to participate in. Um, as we got better than no one wanted to wrestle us. And the way that ruling was, I think it was only three matches. They, they public schools had to wrestle us. Um, and so we, it was just like, we needed, we needed matches and people didn't, didn't want to wrestle us. So, you know, we, we began to look for tournaments and also, you know, in those days, it was a little different. You were allowed a certain number of events. They called it an adult meet was an event and a tournament was an event. But if we're going to travel several hours to a tournament or some travel, several hours period, we want to wrestle more than one time. So we were, we were looking for tournaments in a lot of cases. And, um, you know, I think it worked out and, you know, just. Just to know that it wasn't just Delaware schools that didn't want to wrestle us. I mean, we went to a tournament called the Gilman Dools for years and years. And then they finally pulled me aside and said, look, we're not inviting you back because your guys are just too good. Um, and that also happened at a tournament in New Jersey, which is kind of interesting because, you know, New Jersey thinks very highly of the wrestling. But, um, I think it was that. Well, it was a hundred and central then it was top of the East tournament for years and years. And then it moved us a hundred and central. Um, but that was right around the time of that, uh, team had the eight state champions and, you know, the guy came over and, you know, I started to tell him, look, we're, you know, we're losing quite a few people this year. And then I thought, you know what? No, I don't want to come back here and our kids do well. And then I'm feeling sorry for them. I mean, you know, they asked us not to come. So we found another tournament. So that top of the East tournament became the hundred in classic the holiday classic thing. Yeah. I'm still pissed off about that. I don't know if you remember, and there's, you know, there's plenty of times, right? I had other things, but I remember just cutting so much weight over Christmas. And it was my senior year and senior year was different for me, but, and I was thinking I was beating the kid and I was on top and all I did is just reach back and hook my head almost like a reverse cradle. And I remember just like falling over and I got pinned and I was so pissed off myself. And you couldn't even wrestle back to get third there. So I only got fit. I remember going into like the bathroom or a back hallway and I was just so pissed off myself, but I had no energy. I didn't cut weight the right way. And I'm sitting there eating cantaloupe or next to nothing over dinner. And I just had no energy whatsoever. And I think back on it now, and I don't know that we had, you know, the resources that we do nowadays with strength and conditioning and nutrition plans and all that, but I almost wish that I just would have went up in weight and got bigger and stronger and eight all the time and never cut a pound. And I remember my senior, my senior year, you came up to me for whatever reason. I don't know that I ever got an explanation, but you asked me if I wanted to go one 71, I believe, and I was one 52 and I was like, well, why would I want to do that? I'll win it at 52, but I was still cutting a shit ton of weight.

[01:42:01:17 - 01:42:12:08]
 Well, that's largely it. I mean, I, to me, if, if your main focus is on cutting weight, you're doing the wrong thing, I mean, you know, you really want it to be wrestling.

[01:42:13:08 - 01:46:02:01]
 Part of the problem when you have, you're a part of a good team though, is if you see a place where you can be on the varsity team, you're going to go for it. And that sometimes led people to cut a lot of weight. I mean, my nephew Jason, who, who eventually took over the program when he was in 10th grade, you know, cutting to one 19, but he desperately wanted to be a part of the team and that's the only place he had a shot at getting into the lineup. So he, you know, it was probably a little too much for him, but he did it. And, you know, that, that was kind of common throughout that, that people would do that, but there certainly are a number of times when moving up is, is an advantage to you because you always had, you know, you had such a large frame that, you know, once you fill out into it and you can't, you know, most cases, the higher you got and the lower you got, the competition is good. But at least there wasn't as much of it that was so good. You know, there in the middle that you had a lot. So. Well, I somehow, I mean, cause you know, you guys were always loaded and you know, for me, there was no internet back then, right? So I was at tower Hill for two years. I just remember going to the state tournament for whatever reason and seeing a bunch of St. Mark's guys when it matter of fact, that year it was Kevin, but swinkest that won his first day title and then I came in and senior year as a freshman. But I got, I was fortunate where I was lucky at least half the year before I lost a wrestle off to Adam beat lock. But you know, there was nobody at one 52. I only weighed like one 48 and I just kind of, I just fit in, you know, luckily for me, but then the rest of the rest of my career, for whatever reason, I just stayed one 52, but you know, I kind of jokingly say that, you know, like a Justin Jackson, a Kyle tally, all those guys, they were so good and so strong. I mean, sometimes I just say, damn, I'm, I'm, I'm lucky that they didn't want to wrestle me off. They probably just gave me the respect because I was, I was their elder, but, uh, you know, I was fortunate enough to be varsity there forever. But, um, yeah, you know, I, I just hated school and I started my, my, my family young, so I never, I know I thought about college, but I just never really thought about and just was ready to kind of move on with life. But ultimately, you know, you and I were talking before we started recording is, you know, no matter where you finished or, you know, it was the journey to kind of get there. And I think, you know, really I am who I am today because of everything we did, we did through wrestling. Um, and there's some things, you know, like as a kid, and I tell these stories like when I used to coach, but you know, I don't know if you were strict all the time with everybody, I don't know if you had your favorites or not, but I know there were some things that I did that just naturally brought it upon myself. But you know, my, my sophomore year when I got pulled off the team right before states, I was furious and I was thinking to myself, you know what, I'm going to transfer, I want to, I live by Hudson and I had friends at William Penn and I, I never even told you probably any of this stuff, but I was just thinking, I was just so pissed off that you did it to me, but really you didn't do it to me. You just enforced it, you know, like you taught me lessons and you know, now like I always tell people like, Hey, somebody cuts you off. Like you could go road rage them or somebody does something. You can go hurt somebody or you can make a bad decision. But no, like I think back to, you know, the lessons that I learned at the time, it was so big and you took so much away from us as what we felt like, but really that was such a small little blip on the radar for life lessons that down the road, we became the people that we were because of the life lessons that we learned early on. So, you know, I would suck not to be able to wrestle in the state championship that year when I, you know, I was a top three guy or could have won it. You know, I think that's what helped me along the way as an adult and as a parent, as a coach and all those things. So, you know, it stumped them, but I think, you know, you did all the right things. So I don't know what it was like for you. Like sometimes like, you know, when you discipline your kids, you feel like you feel bad about it, but, you know, it's got to be done. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think, you know, really that to me brings up probably what I considered the most important rule in coaching or teaching. And that is that you have to treat everyone fairly.

[01:46:03:06 - 01:47:06:10]
 And that's easy to say. But the reality is if you're going to treat everyone fairly, you have to treat them different because they're all different. And that's like, you know, how many times have you seen the coach who says, you know, that's the rule. You got to do it. You know, I mean, like I feel like we we worked with a ton of different situations through the years. And when you do that, treat people differently. You open yourself up to criticism because this parent says you let this kid did that, but you didn't let my kid do that and so on. And, you know, as a coach, you have to have the confidence to believe that you're doing the right thing for that kid. And if you're doing the right thing, it may or may not be popular, may not be popular with them or with the other people. But it's you know, you're doing the best you can. No, I didn't always feel like it worked out. I mean, there were certainly times when I wish I had done things differently, pulled back a little bit, whatever.

[01:47:07:22 - 01:47:47:11]
 But that's just the way it was. I mean, you know, you you couldn't go back. All you could do is learn from it. And I feel like I did that. And that, you know, one of the hardest things I think for me to adjust to and even to explain to people is that there are some people that you can scream at and they barely hear you. There are other people that you say a negative word to and you crush them. And you got to kind of pick that up and know how to how to go with them because they are that different. And your objective is for them to develop the best they can. So you can't treat them all the same. You just can't do it. They ever think you were too strict?

[01:47:48:20 - 01:48:34:18]
 I think at times, but overall, no, I didn't seem I mean, the the attitude or remembrance of me seems to be that I was strict as all. But I felt like I was bending and weaving all the time. And, you know, it certainly was such a tremendous advantage having to have an assistant coach like Bill Valencia. I mean, because we went over things so much, you know, talking about him, this, that and, you know, and Bill's very soft spoken, but he would always say what he felt. And that that really helped because you knew you were getting the real deal from him. He wasn't trying to tell you what you wanted to hear. But he was given his honest opinion and then we'd work it out from there.

[01:48:36:00 - 01:51:21:06]
 I always feel like I'm half joking, but half serious. But, you know, I still always I still to this day tell people like I joke with my wife or she jokes with me and I say, I'm scared of Mr. B. Right. So, you know, and if we were both standing up, people would probably laugh at that. Right. But but, you know, I think you command it like you didn't you didn't tell people. But you just the way you conducted yourself, the way you coached, the way you treated people, you just commanded respect. And I think and then on top of that, though, I think, you know, knowing that I don't think you ever drank alcohol, you were very straight laced and all those things. So, you know, you weren't the part or you weren't you weren't crazy and all that stuff. But you were you weren't the bad cop. You were just a straight cop. But so, you know, you commanded a lot of respect and you had it of us. But I know that Bill Valencia, you know, he was the guy that I always told everything to. Right. He was the one I was comfortable in telling all my mistakes or all all my bad decisions to or, you know, if I got in a fight or, you know, my wife got pregnant my senior year. And I was really after the state tournament, I think anyway. But, you know, just all those things I told him and years later, you know, he was a groomsman in my wedding. But then, you know, Mackenzie, my daughter got married a month or two ago. And, you know, you and your family were there. So, you know, I think everybody kind of serves their role. And for me as a coach, you know, there was times where I was a good and a bad cop. But a lot of times I was just the over aggressive bad cop pushing people as hard as I could. But I had people like Bill Valencia. And for a while I had Bill as part of the club or at Sanford School that could be the guy there that could be the soft spoken person and really kind of caught all those kids that needed it and and build them back up. But, yeah, so, you know, so let's just say wrestle on, you know, nowadays, I don't know how much you watch, but, you know, what's the what do you think it's like now compared to then or how has it evolved? They're like, you know, do you watch much college wrestling or high school wrestling anymore? I watch all the college that I can. I don't see as much high school anymore. But, you know, the thing that's interesting about wrestling and at the high school college level doesn't happen as much. But the rules change from time to time. And I, you know, we went up to watch Iowa and University of Penn wrestle. And I, you know, said to my brother, I don't think I still don't think that they've really figured out how to use the three point takedown yet. You know what I mean? I feel like it's kind of they're kind of wrestling the way they always did. But strategy, strategy is going to change with that. And, you know, in international wrestling, which which I follow pretty close, I mean, it it changes all the time. And in pretty drastic ways, which I don't know, I'm not sure that's really a good idea. But it seems like especially when you're dealing with international, whenever whenever the Americans come to where they can dominate the way it is, well, then it's going to change.

[01:51:22:10 - 01:52:30:10]
 And so, you know, when I wrestled, it was a nine minute match in three minutes, three minutes, three minutes. That's a long match. I can tell you right now. And when, you know, when the Americans started whipping up in the third period, then all of a sudden it became a seven minute match, a five minute match. Now it's at six. So, you know, it really it really does depend. But it's it's funny because it changes and it sort of revolves to that things you'll see for a while and then they get really good at countering it. And so then you don't see it. But because now they are not so good at countering it, then it comes back again. So it is a constantly changing thing, which is is kind of neat to watch. And, you know, for me personally, I mean, I look at I look at things and go, you know, I wonder now if I could. If what I did would work, you know, I mean, again, you know, I guess in a little little arrogant, I think it would. I mean, I you know, they do all the fun stuff. But one of my main attacks was to attack a leg and then come up through the middle, what we call the sub.

[01:52:31:12 - 01:53:53:08]
 And but the way the way I hit it, I think was different than a lot of guys. So I don't think there would have been people diving over and grabbing my ankles the way the funk they do today. Yeah, I feel like no matter what rules they have, though, we're always going to adapt, right? We're always going to figure out a way around it. So it's even like when they change the overtime rule in college a couple of years ago. So then, all right, I got out, I got off of bottom or what was it? I forget what it was, but instead of taking bottom and then giving up more riding time, I'll just go neutral. And then that way I don't have to give up a point. Like it's just we're always going to figure it out. I think the biggest thing is if any of the rules change, they got to figure they got to change the rules. So the common person that's not involved with wrestling can watch. So our spectatorship can increase. Otherwise, what's the point? Yeah. So in some ways they have, you know, I mean, certainly a lot easier to say now, well, you count twice. It's two point. You count three times. It's three points. Count four. It's four point. You know what I mean? Like, you know, back in the day, you had to count twice to get the two. But then you had to get the five counts to get the three. So it, you know, it does vary. But I'm I'm curious to see how this is going to evolve through through the year. I mean, to me, one of the greatest changes that they made was having the wrestling continue. As long as there are some piece of the body, the littlest piece in either guy.

[01:53:54:14 - 01:54:06:18]
 I think that's great because there's just, you know, so much of fleeing the mat and things like that, which it's really you don't see that much anymore because it's not a workout for you very well.

[01:54:07:18 - 01:54:36:08]
 So this is probably a two part question because I know you have grandkids now and it's a little bit different. But what was life like after wrestling? When I say after wrestling, let's say after coaching, like I think a lot of times that's our identity. Right. So even for me, when I first stopped coaching, it was like, all right, well, what now? So what was life like when you transitioned from coaching all those years to just almost being a normal person or having a normal job or not having to coach and then, you know, even now as a grandfather. But what was life like originally for you? How was that transition?

[01:54:38:09 - 01:54:49:21]
 Well, I mean, I. It's a change, but I think that it in my case, I mean, I wanted to coach.

[01:54:50:21 - 01:54:56:04]
 I didn't want to be what I consider just the sort of a flash a few years and then done.

[01:54:57:12 - 01:55:33:06]
 And but at the same time, it was also taxing on you to, you know, to go and work the way we did and things like that. So, you know, in switching up to me, it was more just a change. I mean, the thing that I tried to preach always was honestly, it didn't matter what you did. It could be wrestling, but it could be anything else. But but be the best you could be at it no matter what. And so to me, that's that the transition. And so, you know, I moved from the teaching and coaching to being an athletic director.

[01:55:34:10 - 01:55:51:22]
 And and then that was my focus there. And of course, there was a ton to learn in that regard. But, you know, and it was a lot like coaching only now instead of coaching a bunch of kids to a great degree, I'm coaching a bunch of coaches. And believe me, that can be more difficult.

[01:55:53:04 - 01:56:58:21]
 But, you know, and and again, you know, what I what I realized, I think, through through it all. And one of the biggest problem with a lot of coaches, because you're trying to get them to be successful like they want to be, but they don't really know how is that remember that this this is about the kids. And when you forget that and make it easier for the athletic director, then you're not doing what's right for the kids. And when you're doing what's easier for the coach, you're not doing what's right for the kids. I mean, that's that's got to be part of your focus, not that they get to do anything they want. But I don't know if you remember, like the one year they they decided that they were going to not allow you to check your weight at the at the state tournament after you wrestled the first day. Well, that's absurd. And the guys that made the change, they wrestled. And they if they had thought about it for a second, yeah, it was a pain in the ass. The kids messed around in there where the scale was and all that sort of thing. But the reality was it had to be done.

[01:56:59:22 - 01:58:10:00]
 And so, you know, when I was on the state committee for a number of years, that's the one thing I always tried to bring to the table when they started trying to make this rule or that rule that, you know, what impact is it going to have with you as a wrestler? Have been OK with that or, you know, should you do it a little differently so that it does? And, you know, a lot of the things as an athletic director that I get as a coach is in only now you're doing it for all the sports is to make them want to be a part of it. And so, you know, things like introducing the lineups and, you know, different things like that. That now it's the Internet, the Web site. The one thing I was demanded of them was they had to keep the results up for the middle school. All I wanted was a score for the high school. I wanted all the results every single time you don't put them on there. And you'd be surprised that the amazingly stupid things you'll hear. One of my favorites in the double, it seemed to come out of men's lacrosse for some reason. They didn't want to put the numbers and they didn't want to put the results because that you were giving the other team a scouting report.

[01:58:11:19 - 01:58:28:03]
 Your high school in this case, you might not even be any good. You know, I mean, look at a college Web site. You know, you want the stats in there. You want the thing because the parents and the kid want to look at it and see their name and see what they did. It makes them want to be involved.

[01:58:29:11 - 01:58:37:16]
 And, you know, you'll fight those battles on through. And, you know, sometimes you won. Sometimes you didn't. But.

[01:58:38:17 - 01:59:52:17]
 Yeah. So looking back on things, whether it's, you know, to an athlete or more so probably to guys that are in the coaching now, but personally, professionally, what advice would you have for somebody or all the things that you learn? But there's one or two things you could tell somebody on a personal professional level now sharing all your wisdom and experience and things like that. What would it be? Well, I think, you know, as far as the teaching and coaching, and I did a lot of thinking about this in and, you know, looking at a lot of different people and why they were successful and at their different things. And what I truly believe and this would be for the, you know, the coaching, the athletic director teaching, whatever, is that you need to care about the kids that you're working with. And kids aren't stupid. They know when you're faking it. You got to actually care. But if you do and they believe that you are totally supporting them and trying to help them, it's incredible. The things that they will do, that they will work for, that their goals will be.

[01:59:53:19 - 02:00:23:08]
 But I mean, you look at some some of the teachers that you hated and it was hard to look at that teacher and go, now, does that teacher really care about me? And in most cases, you thought would have been, no, they really don't. It's a job or it's a whatever. But, you know, when you cared, you would work. And I think that's, you know, that's something that we need. But it's not easy to do sometimes. Sometimes people are hard to care about, but it's just got to be.

[02:00:24:19 - 02:01:33:03]
 So, Amity, and I know we didn't talk about your family too much, but you have Tyler, who, you know, you mentioned Eddie Russell for a little while, but he was mainly a soccer player, but he took second in the state one year when he wrestled and then went on to play at Pittsburgh. You have Megan that I know originally went to St. Joe's, thinks she came back. She played soccer. She was a goalie, correct? And then she came back and went to school locally. She's now a nurse. And then Mrs. B, your wife is a nurse and she'd been with you for forever. But how long have you guys been married? Well, I shouldn't have known. They are pretty sure it's 44 this year. So at 44 years, you got to have some advice on at least a marriage tip for us then, right? I mean, Christ Almighty, 44 years. That doesn't happen much nowadays. You know, it's hard to get past four or five years. Yeah, that might be fine. The right woman that can stand you for that long. But now we actually, we actually been together for longer than that. I was, I was 14. I always tell her that I can't believe I wasted this first 14 years of my life without her. But you kind of grow, grow together and learn. And it's, you know, it's it's really you need a special woman.

[02:01:35:06 - 02:02:14:16]
 Some of us need it more than others, Corey. Well, in wrapping things up, Mr. B, one, you know, I feel privileged to be a part of your coaching career. And I didn't tell you all the stories. I know I didn't give any effort at all in your history class. So but, you know, and then really, you know, the support that we've gotten from Mrs. B over the years, you know, on and off the mat. And, you know, Tyler used to work with my daughter, Mackenzie, in soccer. And Megan, I don't know that well. But, you know, I know she was much younger when I was around, but got a great family. We appreciate everything you've done. You know, I look forward to continuing to talk to you about some things, but I appreciate your time today and I'll talk to you soon. Yeah, sounds good. Thanks, Mr. B. Hey, Corey.